Flow: Leopard Only?
Flow is one of the “lucky” applications that gets to make a decision that many other applications don’t get to make. Because Flow was in development before Mac OS X Leopard (10.5) was released publicly, the issue of whether or not Flow would be 10.5-only has always been somewhat up-in-the-air.
Once the decision is made, it will be final for the remainder of that major version. That is, if 1.0 includes support for Tiger, *ALL* 1.x releases will support Tiger. I think it’d be unethical to drop support for an operating system as a minor release.
—
That being said, after opening up and seeing the incredible support from the community earlier this month, I think it’s super important that I get your opinion about this issue.
To help you best answer the question, I’ve outlined the benefits and deficits of being 10.5 only. I’ll give you fair warning though: while I tried to be as objective as possible, being 10.5 only makes me my job easier (and allows me to make a better product). I’m definitely bias.
Benefits of being a Leopard-only Application
- Flow will be able to take advantage (moreso post-1.0) of the latest Leopard technologies. This means less time spent on getting technicalities right, and more time spent on implementing really cool features.
- With 10.4 out of the picture, I can stop writing “dual code” in certain situations, which saves time and increases the rate of development.
- Better performance because Flow could take advantage of the latest APIs.
- An increase in support and issue resolution efficiency. Supporting two operating systems is understandably more difficult than supporting one. Dropping 10.4 support means I no longer need to fix 10.4 only bugs. Fair warning: As of now, there is only one outstanding 10.4-only bug. In the future, though, this may not be the case.
Deficits of being a Leopard-only Application
- If you’re a 10.4 user, you can’t use Flow. According to the latest statistics available, about 20% of the Mac user base is running on 10.5 right now. More interestingly, 83.1% of the current beta testers are running on 10.5 right now. This tells me that there is a high correlation between people who are interested in third party software and those who are interested in first party (Apple) software.
- If you’re a primary 10.5 user, but still have an old mac running 10.4, you can’t use Flow on your old mac. The practicality and applicability of this “deficit” is questionable at best. Honestly, I just thought it’d look unfair if I only listed one deficit
So, what do you think? Would you mind if Flow was 10.5-only? Why, or why not?
[Update: I posted my thoughts and conclusive action to the discussion as a comment. The short version: Yes, Flow will be Leopard-only!]
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January 26th, 2008 at 9:44 pm
If it makes Flow a better application, I say go for it!
January 26th, 2008 at 9:46 pm
How about providing a download link to the LAST Tiger version for any beta testers still on tiger (so they have something, even though it won’t get updated :/), and make Flow’s future releases Leopard-only to take advantage of Leopard technology like Core Animation
That’s my 2 cents!
January 26th, 2008 at 9:47 pm
I don’t really think there is a reason not to go 10.5 only. ten point five is a considerably nicer operating system then ten point four and will open up the doors to new features. As well as that development time will be cut in half, considering ten point five adds so much to the back end.
January 26th, 2008 at 9:50 pm
I’d say go Leopard-only. Flow needs a lot to beat the competition, and with all new Macs coming with Leopard, and Leopard being a success among current users, when Flow launches, more than 50% of the installed base will be on Leopard.
I’m all for a better app. Go for it!
January 26th, 2008 at 10:19 pm
My input is less informed than it could be, since I don’t actually have access to Flow yet. But one thing you could potentially do is release 1.0 Leopard-only, but provide the final Tiger-compatible beta version for free (or cheap) to 10.4 users. To ensure that people aren’t just using the beta on Leopard to avoid paying (full price) for the app, you could add some code to the beta that checks the OS version and prevents it from running on 10.5.0 or higher.
That way, those who really want to use the app will get to whether they’re on Leopard or Tiger; it’s just that the people who are software savvy (those most likely to use Flow anyway) will have access to the newest and coolest features- and bugfixes.
Oh, incidentally- in Firefox 3b2, the div#footer (Copyright © 2007-2008 Extendmac, LLC, All Rights/Wrongs Reserved.) on the Flow pages turns up overlayed on content in the middle of the page. IANAWD, so I have no idea why, but I thought you might like to know.
Can’t wait to try Flow out!
January 26th, 2008 at 10:32 pm
Yes, Leopard only please!
January 26th, 2008 at 10:32 pm
Personally, I don’t care if you drop support for Tiger, as I’m already running on Leopard.
And since the product isn’t even released yet, I think you should take advantage of this and optimize for the future. (aka Leopard)
January 26th, 2008 at 10:34 pm
@Jonas Wisser
Interesting thought in that it solves any potential occurrence of the “second” deficit I listed. There are lots of ways to go about “freezing” a 10.4-compatible version for those who want it (or those who paid, etc.), and it really comes down to what the demand is. For simplicity’s sake, if 1.0 is out-the-door and 10.5 only, I’d very much so prefer to never have a 10.4 compatible build get out there. Food for thought, though!
January 26th, 2008 at 10:35 pm
I have decided that for future projects I am only going to develop for 10.5 and above. You will have issues if you have to support two or more versions. I have had problems in the past where users of a application were 3 version behind the current and they generated to many problems for me to continue the maintenance of the app.
January 26th, 2008 at 10:35 pm
Why don’t you do something like I’m planning with TuneConnect: 10.4 is “unofficially supported.” I’m designing the app for 10.5, and fixing 10.4 bugs when it’s doable without an extreme amount of effort, and/or when it doesn’t compromise the functionality or performance on 10.5. That, and I’m putting no effort into making it “look pretty” on 10.4.
To completely take 10.4 support away probably isn’t the best idea, since there are still a ton of people who use it. Rather than just throw in 10.5-only APIs, I’m not saying you should dual-code for 10.4, but at least make it conditional, so people who try to use that particular functionality just get a message like “This feature is not compatible with OS X 10.4.” or something to that effect. That way, 10.4 users can continue to use Flow, just with a few less features or glitz.
January 26th, 2008 at 10:35 pm
Go with the most advanced platform and build for the future. 10.5 and above.
January 26th, 2008 at 10:36 pm
I don’t think making it Leopard-only would be a problem - the percentage of Mac users that WOULD USE an application like Flow would be MUCH higher than 20% (i’m thinking Web Designers/Developers etc, who’ll usually run the latest OS X release).
January 26th, 2008 at 10:36 pm
Leopard only please. Applications and companies need to start taking bold moves, and although it may be unpopular, I say it will make a better product overall.
January 26th, 2008 at 10:37 pm
I am only running 10.4 now, but am scraping up the funds to get 10.5. Even though I am on Tiger, I say go Leopard-only! It is the future, it’s where everyone is headed, and when everyone gets there you’ll be in the lead.
As far as how to start getting folks on to Flow now, I really dig the idea of putting a bit of polish on a 10.4 version, and then making it a free app. Consider it a donation to all 10.4 users. It’ll get a bunch of folks using it, and then looking into what you’re cooking up with 10.5 … and eventually over to the new version.
I think it would be a good move for the Mac user community, and a good marketing move. Do it!
January 26th, 2008 at 10:38 pm
I think that the market for Flow is probably a group of users who are going to be upgrading to Leopard within 6 months, or are already running 10.5.x now.
Keep up the good work. I wish I had more time to put your app through it’s paces more often.
January 26th, 2008 at 10:38 pm
I am not upgrading to Leopard until ALL of my apps will run on it. That being said, I would be dissappointed to not be given the option to use Flow simply because developers are not creating leopard compatible apps fast enough. Two essentials for me are Windowshade X and Mozy. Mozy MAY have released an update, but I know unsanity hasn’t. I’d have to uninstall all haxies to get Leopard to work. Since windowshade is an integral part of my computing routines, I have to wait.
I suggest creating a stable version, FOR FREE or no more than 5 bucks, for tiger users. A version that will NOT be updated. Then create a leopard only version.
Thats my 2 cents. :o)
January 26th, 2008 at 10:40 pm
It really depends on what the majority thinks, I myself only upgraded to Leopard a week ago (I was waiting until I bought a new computer before I did the upgrade), so if the beta had become Leopard only I would have been unable to use them. I guess it then also depends on how much longer Flow will be in beta, if it’s a month or less, than I would say it might not be bad to keep Tiger support, but if it’ll be more than a month than that’ll give potential users a little more time to get around to upgrading. Although I do like the idea that a couple people have already mentioned about having the last beta available to Tiger users and then the 1.0 release being Leopard only.
Personally, I would love to have it go Leopard only because that means that it would look and feel a lot better since it would take advantage of all the neat new things in Leopard. Ultimately it’s your choice, and I think that even at this point Flow is an amazing application and wouldn’t suffer for not having the Leopard only features for a while longer.
January 26th, 2008 at 10:40 pm
Go Leopard only! Garbage Collection, Core Animation, 64-Bit, and improved Core Data features are totally worth it!
January 26th, 2008 at 10:41 pm
I can’t help guessing that if you ask a group of mostly Leopard users how they feel about it being Leopard only, you’ll find that most of them are fine with the idea…that said, if it IS Leopard only, I like the idea of letting Tiger users use the final Tiger-compatible version. Might drive them to buy the release version when they upgrade.
January 26th, 2008 at 10:41 pm
out with the old in with the new!
January 26th, 2008 at 10:42 pm
@Matt Patenaude
Well, that’s mainly what I’m doing now, actually. With the exception of a few UI things, there is very little in Flow that actually *does* use “dual mode” code as I said. That being said, it’s also very visually clear that Flow was designed for 10.5 primarily. The hues of the Connect/BookmarkView, etc., all scream 10.5.
More notably, though, I cannot do what you suggested with integrating 10.5 functionality “optionally.” Unfortunately, integrating things like Core Animation requires the app link against the 10.5 SDK, which means it just won’t launch on 10.4. Bah!
@Rees Maxwell
Clever idea!
@Everyone
Thanks for feedback! You’re all influencing the future of Flow, and I can’t thank you enough for it.
January 26th, 2008 at 10:44 pm
Seeing as how I’ve upgraded all my Macs to 10.5 this idea sounds fine to me. Now those poor guys with 10.4 are going to be sad, but I’ll be happy with my 10.5 only flow love
January 26th, 2008 at 10:45 pm
It seems to me that it’s probably safe to go “Leopard-only”. Why? I think the majority of the audience for flow (designers, developers) are likely to have upgraded, perhaps for other programs. Secondly, as flow is still in beta, with an impending release date, Leopard market-share is only going to increase (we’re not talking about vista here!) between now and then…
The Leopard-only bits kinda gives it some “marketing panache” as well.
jc
January 26th, 2008 at 10:48 pm
I upgraded all of my machines the day Leopard came out. Sure it’s only 20% now but in the next 6 months I’d expect it to be 50% or more. Some folks just wait for a .2 or so… Some other Leopard only software is coming out, plus things like SuperDuper getting fully compatible…
So I’d say start off simple and aim for the most current, realizing your pool of customers will only grow as time goes on.
January 26th, 2008 at 10:50 pm
Definitely keep it Tiger-supporting. That way, more people will use it. (Also, I use Tiger. D:)
January 26th, 2008 at 10:50 pm
I’m pretty sure the one 10.4 outstanding bug is the one I’ve submitted to you.
And as a 10.4 user (who isn’t going 10.5 until all adobe apps are officially supported) I’d say go ahead and make it 10.5 only.
It make perfect sense to make it 10.5 only, especially given your situation. The majority of the people who are interested in this app are already 10.5 users and those of us who are not 10.5 yet, will be soon enough.
January 26th, 2008 at 10:50 pm
Brian, I have read your blog and followed some of your work so I am sure that you have done your fair share of reading on this topic. More then likely you came across this similar post regarding the Developer of TextMate’s decision to make TextMate 2.0 a Leopard only version:
http://blog.macromates.com/2006/20-will-require-leopard/
In that article he has a clear list of reasons why he chose Leopard only. I think you have very much the same list and focus. Here is a direct quote from Allan Odgaard in that article:
“Secondly, roughly 90% of my users are early adopters and have in all likelihood upgraded to Leopard within a few months of its release, so by keeping compatibility with older operating systems I am catering to less than 10% of my users.”
I think Flow is going to appeal to those Early Adopters that have already upgraded to Leopard. I have yet to dive deep into Mac OS X development myself, but I have heard that Leopard development is easier in more then just a few instances (Garbage Collection is an obvious one). Keeping developers (or should I say architects?) happy is one of my main concerns because, well, I am one myself.
Keep up the great work!
January 26th, 2008 at 10:53 pm
Given the current trend in individuals upgrading to Leopard and the fact (per your statistics) that the majority
of Flow beta tests are running 10.5 its seems that making Flow Leopard-only is a reasonable choice. While that
leave Tiger users in the dark per se it is always true that more and more OS X users will be moving to Leopard as
time goes by.
It is probably in your’s and the OS X community’s best interest if you pursue a Leopard-only solution given you
time constraints and the benefits that Leopard brings to developers. All of this is just my opinion though. I
recognize the need to support previous versions as a professional software developer but in this case I think the
benefits of only supporting Leopard far out weigh the disadvantages of trying to maintain a split-brain product.
January 26th, 2008 at 10:58 pm
I’m on 10.5, and I’d be interested to see what all can be done with a Leopard-only app. Personally, I would be fine with a 10.5 only because I get all of the benefits. However, consider that the majority of beta testers could possibly represent a skewed pool in which they do not reflect the full scale of users that will want to use Flow. I think I agree with Ryan Boswell in considering how long it will be before Flow hits 1.0. If it’s going to be another two or three months, Leopard will have been out for six months, and most users will likely be using 10.5, but if it’s going to be soon, then make 10.4 an option. I think though, that 10.5 will have been out long enough that I wouldn’t consider it odd that it’s 10.5 only.
I’m only slightly hesitant with my vote to go 10.5 only.
January 26th, 2008 at 11:00 pm
I think Leopard-only is a smart move. If a more leisure-type app like Delicious Library can justify doing so, for all the latest pizazz and ease of development, I think you can, too. Clearly the UI, overall design, heck, even the icon scream cutting-edge and shiny, and you shouldn’t hold back everything the app can offer by supporting 10.4. Most users heard for months from all types of developers about the goodies 10.5 would bring to make developers’ lives easier, with the nice side-benefit of neat functionality. Now’s the time to put money where the mouth was, so to speak.
January 26th, 2008 at 11:04 pm
if panic can go leopard only, just like delicious library 2 and textmate, anxiety and countless other apps - so can you Brian. Go for it!
January 26th, 2008 at 11:08 pm
Mandating support for legacy operating systems only goes to stifle development, and also hinder the forward progression of development and the adoption of the OS. Not only that, you have to take into consideration your market “constituency”. Flow is aimed towards power users and developers etc right? If that is the case, most of them have probably made the upgrade already.
January 26th, 2008 at 11:09 pm
While the stats indicate that 20% of Macs are 10.5, that’s a lagging indicator, meaning that’s what it was when the stat was taken. An equally important trend is how fast is the adoption of 10.5 on the existing customer base.
Then there is the fact that every new Mac is sold with 10.5 on it, it makes sense to leave 10.4 support in 1.x and making 10.5 a requirement moving forward.
Just my two cents.
Ben
January 26th, 2008 at 11:10 pm
Here’s an idea…
Open source the key components and allow someone to develop a Tiger version.
January 26th, 2008 at 11:15 pm
I personally use leopard, as do all my friends, so I don’t see any problem going leopard only. It will be another push for people to make the upgrade, which, in my opinion, is something they should be doing. I guess what I say doesn’t really matter, I’ll be able to use the software wether or not you make it leopard only. But considering your user-base so far, I would go leopard only. I’ll make your job much easier.
January 26th, 2008 at 11:19 pm
As much as I would like to see Flow remain compatible with 10.4 (I haven’t gotten around to upgrading myself, though I intend to), you may not have the resources to do so, while adding new features. If that’s the case, drop 10.4 and focus on new, cool features instead, your user’s will love you for it. There’s no reason to stretch yourself too thin.
January 26th, 2008 at 11:22 pm
I like the idea of keeping the last pre 10.5 version available for download and move forward with the newer 10.5 only versions.
January 26th, 2008 at 11:22 pm
I highly recommend keeping Tiger support. I know many (myself included) will not be running 10.5 until they purchase their next computer. I’m still chugging away on an iBook G4 myself - yeah it *could* run Leapord, but the performance tradeoff is too great considering that I’ll be buying a new Macbook later this year that includes Leapord when I go to med school. I think that Leapord only would by fine for a 1.5 or 2.0 release later this year, once more of the Mac user base is on 10.5.
January 26th, 2008 at 11:29 pm
i would prefer it if flow was offered to both tiger and leopard users. i know many people who have not made the transition to leopard because the majority of the software they own is not compatible with leopard, and it’s not in the budget to buy all new version of the same program.
January 26th, 2008 at 11:29 pm
that entry question got me scared there for a moment (I suck at math!).
anyway… My own two bits are ad follows. From a selfish user who uses Leopard I say ditch Tiger, we want all the cool Leopard features you can get us, and if that means the old Tiger people have to suffer… So be it!
on the other hand, from a business perspective it just doesn’t make sense to ditch such a large customer base just to get a few extra features in.
Thanks for all your hard work!
January 26th, 2008 at 11:37 pm
Make it 10.5 only. The challenge for software is to be great software, not just good software. To be great u must “flow” with progress & make it the best darn program u can! Just my opinion….in life too! jerry
January 26th, 2008 at 11:39 pm
I do not like forcing people to upgrade, and I don’t like Apple forcing people to upgrade. I think its fair to support both Leopard and Tiger. My employer thinks the same way.
January 26th, 2008 at 11:43 pm
I say no. I’m still waiting to make the jump to Leopard, and I know I’m not the only one. Generally, I think it’s wisest to always support the most recent and previous Operating Systems..
January 26th, 2008 at 11:45 pm
Of course it should be Leopard only. You should be making this not only easier to develop now but easier to maintain later. The sooner you start cutting off old releases, the better. This is coming from somebody who is a beta-days adopter (early adopter just doesn’t do it justice. I’m willing ot live with a few bugs to improve the whole picture). Design for the future. Not for the past. Why spend hours writing code for make it work flawlessly in 10.4 when you could be adding features for 10.5 to enhance the app and make it more competitive with the other FTP clients out there?
January 26th, 2008 at 11:45 pm
I know you may be losing a lot of potential customers, but given your previous blog post about the status of Flow and the fact that this would make developing Flow easier, then I say make it Leopard only. But either way, I’d be pleased.
January 26th, 2008 at 11:45 pm
I think it should be Leopard only. You can take advantage of all the new features, and really, you won’t be leaving anybody behind because the final has not been released yet, so no Tiger users (except the few beta testers who usually use the latest technology anyway) have grown to depend on it.
January 26th, 2008 at 11:46 pm
If it makes flow better, I would have to say 10.5 Leopard only.
January 26th, 2008 at 11:50 pm
Absolutely it should be Leopard only. I think it gets futile to try and continue support for older OS’s, especially with an app with only 1 developer. Being able to quickly adapt and only support the latest OS is part of what makes the Mac so great
January 26th, 2008 at 11:52 pm
I would be glad if you bring out a Tiger version as well because I still use it on my Macs.
January 26th, 2008 at 11:52 pm
Like many others have said, if it makes for a better application, then by all means, drop Tiger support.
January 26th, 2008 at 11:54 pm
I vote for leopard only. If delicious library, disco, and others can do it, so can you
January 26th, 2008 at 11:54 pm
Leopard only for me - I love Leopard’s new goodies. I’ve just started getting into Bento, which is Leopard only, and really love the extras you get with Leopard.
January 26th, 2008 at 11:54 pm
I think you difenitly should make Flow 10.5 only! As JEROME GELB said we want the best software not just good software.
PS, You should put a poll up so people can vote.
January 26th, 2008 at 11:57 pm
Leopard only.
Not only will this make things easier for you programmatically (not having to give up any benefits that 10.5 brings) but it will be a solid financial move. The kinds of people who buy Mac software will have bought Leopard. I don’t think you will lose many sales, and it will (I assume) require less development time, which is an significant issue for you.
January 26th, 2008 at 11:58 pm
Go Leopard.
January 27th, 2008 at 12:01 am
From a programming standpoint, it makes sense to be coding always with the latest API’s and technologies to ensure maximum forward compatibility and ability to squash bugs.
From a business standpoint, it makes sense to have compatibility with as many OSes as possible.
That being said, you’ll notice that Apple tends to quickly drop support for older OSes and computers (OS X system requirements for older systems notwithstanding). They do it pretty gradually, but they push and push. Also note that Microsoft takes the business-friendly route, and we all know what kind of a mammoth, legacy-supporting mess Windows is.
January 27th, 2008 at 12:03 am
I’m a strong supporter of 3rd party apps, but am still holding out on 10.5. My workflow unfortunately relies on software that won’t be upgraded to Leopard anytime soon, but I do see a use for Flow on my machine. To me, the best of both worlds solution would be the same as many people have mentioned. An unsupported final 10.4 beta, and a fully supported 10.5 version with all the bells and whistles.
January 27th, 2008 at 12:03 am
I think Leopard only will be good for you as a developer, less worries with support work. And it will take advantage of the stuff in Leopard with out bloating the code for support for tiger.
So I say go fro Leopard only.
January 27th, 2008 at 12:04 am
Tiger is dead. Not quite yet, but…
go for Leopard.
January 27th, 2008 at 12:06 am
Leopard for teh win!
January 27th, 2008 at 12:07 am
I’d say go for it. I imagine the market for Flow will probably have Leopard.
January 27th, 2008 at 12:07 am
Some of the big names in Mac software are going leopard only for their next releases. For example Wil Shipley (of Delicious Monster) has gone leopard only because he believes that people who won’t/can’t upgrade to leopard probably aren’t going to buy the software anyway.
For new applications, I think it’s a no-brainer to go leopard only. The only reason for flow NOT to go leopard only is if doing so would further delay the 1.0 release. I don’t think it would be unethical to go leopard-only for 1.5, especially if you say that when 1.0 is released.
January 27th, 2008 at 12:08 am
Make it leopard only!!
January 27th, 2008 at 12:12 am
I agree with everyone who suggests making the full releases Leopard-only, but letting Tiger users download the final Tiger version, so they’re not totally excluded. Most web developers and other people who would use Flow probably already upgraded to Leopard anyway, so it shouldn’t make as much of a difference as it would if Flow were some sort of general public app not aimed at a certain group of people…
January 27th, 2008 at 12:13 am
I vote for Leopard only. There are several Tiger compatible apps out there, that for the most part, do what Flow does. I get the impression that you’re trying to go beyond the normal “pretty” file transfer utility. If that is your ultimate goal, and Leopard allows you to better achieve it, then go for it.
January 27th, 2008 at 12:13 am
I say 10.5 only and then release the last beta version that supports 10.4 for people who want to mess with it.
January 27th, 2008 at 12:16 am
I think going Leopard-only would be good for Flow’s development cycle.
January 27th, 2008 at 12:17 am
Make it Loepard only As a developer you want the latest technology and users who run older OS versions are not very likely to buy new applications anyway.
January 27th, 2008 at 12:18 am
As a Cocoa developer, I really like Leopard. Tiger was great too. Personally, all of my companies’ apps will support Tiger for most of this year. After that, the Tiger versions will still be supported, but will be frozen as far as new features go. We will continue to fix bugs though.
If you are trying to make Flow as awesome and cutting edge as possible, I think that is the best approach for you. The new APIs in Leopard are just spectacular! I’m a fan anyway. I think Leopard only soon, but not for the initial release.
January 27th, 2008 at 12:18 am
… another vote for going Leopard only if it helps the speed of development and the feature set.
January 27th, 2008 at 12:20 am
Make it Leopard only, don’t hesitate.
January 27th, 2008 at 12:22 am
Running 10.4 on all machines. I wanted to wait a while to see how 10.5 worked. I will be upgrading to Leopard in the next 3-6 months however.
If the user experience will be greatly reduced on 10.4, do 10.5 only. Small companies don’t have the resources to keep track of and work on dual versions for different operating systems. It’s just a fact.
So, I say, if 10.5 is the best way to go, do it. Maybe I can convince my ‘boss’ that we need to upgrade to 10.5 sooner than planned.
January 27th, 2008 at 12:27 am
I spend my time making web-based application interfaces, and always take pride in the quality of user experience. To that end, I’m always fighting with similar questions - do we REALLY need to support IE? Can we make our clients upgrade to Firefox or Safari to use the CMS? Or at least, drop IE6 and just go with IE7?
So I totally understand, and my 2c is just go with what gets a better product to market sooner. We dropped IE6 support for our Admin interfaces a year ago and it was a big deal - now not so much. And it’s let us build better software, faster, because of the lower overhead.
Do your best, get out in front, and the world will catch up.
January 27th, 2008 at 12:28 am
10.5 only, so many more options to make it a great app with Leopard rather than Tiger.
January 27th, 2008 at 12:29 am
Go leopard only! Theres so much great stuff you can take advantage of, without having to worry about backward compatibility. And plus the Leopard user base will keep growing, while the Tiger user base will just shrink more.
January 27th, 2008 at 12:36 am
I don’t have access to the Flow beta(s), so I haven’t been able to try it out.
Having said that…
I also say go Leopard-only; more efficient development and faster dev cycles are key points.
January 27th, 2008 at 12:36 am
Leopard.
January 27th, 2008 at 12:39 am
I’ll be putting up with Tiger until I get a new Mac later this year, but considering your list of benefits, it seems obvious that the best decision is to make Flow Leopard-only. I’d rather look forward to using a further improved product. That said, it would be nice if you could resolve that one outstanding 10.4-only bug before moving on (unless doing so would be very time-consuming or frustrating), and then leave a link to the last 10.4-compatible version on the beta center site.
January 27th, 2008 at 12:45 am
I think a final (cheap) 10.4 version with no updates would be the way to go. This way you don’t disappoint all the Tigers out there. And they have a great teaser for buying Flow after upgrading to 10.5
January 27th, 2008 at 12:49 am
I would still prefer to have a Tiger-compatible version 1.0. It is more work, but it can also be rewarding. Not onlt to the user.
January 27th, 2008 at 12:52 am
I’m going to go against the majority here and say Leo-only is not a good thing unless the core functionality of the app can’t be achieved without Leopard APIs. I don’t have Leopard yet. The feeling amongst the more objective, reputable and intellectual publications I’ve read seems to be that Leopard introduces a large number of new (often embarrassing) bugs. Many of these bugs are bad enough that a lot smart people I know try to avoid using Leo.
But the decision’s ultimately yours.
January 27th, 2008 at 12:53 am
As someone said before:
If it makes Flow a better application, I say go for it!
January 27th, 2008 at 12:53 am
As all our Macs are already upgraded to Leopard, my answer is: go for Leopard-only.
Time will work for you.
January 27th, 2008 at 12:55 am
Leopard only is the way to go IMO.
BTW, I hope to see this software released some day. The private beta time has been extended too much. I hope it worth the wait.
January 27th, 2008 at 1:00 am
[...] bookmarks tagged leopard Flow: Leopard Only? saved by 5 others jessealonso7 bookmarked on 01/27/08 | [...]
January 27th, 2008 at 1:00 am
If I were you, I’d go for the leaner, smaller, more efficient and future-proof codebase - Leopard-or-later-only.
January 27th, 2008 at 1:01 am
I’d make it for Leopard only and concentrate on the best possible product for that
January 27th, 2008 at 1:03 am
It’s only because I have read your previous blog posts about your situation and the limited time you can spend on Flow or I would have said this quite differently. Now I can only have respect for your accomplishment so far, but in any other case I would have strongly condemned a choice like this.
So in the light of that post, keep it Leopard only and focus on releasing a final version.
January 27th, 2008 at 1:05 am
making flow 10.5 only will make a harsh cut through the potential users… after a time nearly everybody will update to leo.
i would say 10.5 only doesnt matter to to me. if it is easy for you to include 10.4 support do it… if it is twice the work or causes quite some trouble, drop it…
the aim should be to make flow a really good application… stable, fast and user friendly… if tiger drops stones in your way, step around and make it leo only…
January 27th, 2008 at 1:05 am
Personally I’d love it to be Leopard only. Definitely opens up more possibilities to your direction with the app.
As for the broader mac community, I’m of the opinion that the people that are going to ‘purchase’ an application (shareware or other) are definitely going to be the ones that have already or will upgrade to Leopard.
January 27th, 2008 at 1:07 am
I’d go for Leopard only even though my present machine is too old for Leopard. I will be replacing my 2001 G4 Digital Audio with a Leopard machine in the next couple of months.
January 27th, 2008 at 1:11 am
People will always buy new Apple software before they buy yours, so making Flow a Leopard-only application is likely a huge win. Not to mention the Leopard development environment is leaps and bounds beyond Tiger.
January 27th, 2008 at 1:11 am
I USE LEOPARD!
January 27th, 2008 at 1:16 am
I think it should be Leopard only if it means that development of flow would be easier to manage.
January 27th, 2008 at 1:19 am
Positively
January 27th, 2008 at 1:43 am
Well, if Flow goes Leopard-only, I won’t be using it… I don’t see why Tiger should be dumped just if many of you have Leopard (and say so), and Flow is already 10.4 compatible and developed for both platforms? For a developer who already has made the decision to create software for 10.4 and has started the developement on that platform (with it’s ‘limitations’) it should be natural to keep it on that platform and at least create a releaseable and as functional and fully-featured program as possible. THEN he could create a 2.x version that would drop native support for older technologies, especially if the developer has already a clear need for moving to 10.5 (or post-10.5). Better yet, a totally new and awesome program perhaps!? Why must you all who already have 10.5 just think of yourselves? It would be the same as leaving an older friend behind for the new one when you could keep both.
January 27th, 2008 at 1:46 am
I’m running 10.5.1 and in the last MUG meeting we had most are running 10.5 now and the rest (after seeing Time Machine/Time Capsule presentation) are planning to upgrade in the next two months.
I’d say go to 10.5 only. I think considering the number of changes in the OS it is reasonable for the latest applications to be released for the current shipping Mac OS.
Just my 2 euro cents.
January 27th, 2008 at 1:46 am
I think it should be Leopard-specific. TextMate2 will be Leopard-specific - and although I’m no desktop developer, I think his reasoning is perfectly sound. I really like his style of development, and I love his application, so I would assume he knows what to do - for this and other reasons, I cast my vote for leopard-only.
The kind of person who would want to use Flow, a developer / edge-user type, will almost certainly be on Leopard anyway,
January 27th, 2008 at 1:48 am
Oh, and as customers we should not put pressure on the developer. ‘Everything for me now!’ is not a very good way of giving support.. It’s released when it’s ready. If the program is well crafted and refined, it will not matter if it’s released later.
January 27th, 2008 at 1:55 am
Go 10.5 only, last working 10.4 left for unsupported tryout.
I have 5 Macs in the house. The two newest ones have 10.5.1 installed.
I have the family pack 10.5 ready to start upgrading the three older macs when
I have all of my third party software and hardware tested on 10.5 and Apple
gets the 10.5.2 update out.
January 27th, 2008 at 1:57 am
I don’t care since I run on Leopard. I know it’s much easier to build 10.5-only Apps (than support 10.4, too), so since Flow hasn’t yet been released, you can easily straight go for Leopard only.
January 27th, 2008 at 1:57 am
Leopard-only!
January 27th, 2008 at 1:58 am
I think that Flow should be leopard only, because:
- it’s a new application,
- others FTP software are (and have to be) Tiger compatible; it should be an advantage for Flow
- For a better support (and so a better user experience)
- And because if you choose te develop Flow “Leopard only”, it’s about 80% of mac user that will be running 10.5 !
January 27th, 2008 at 1:59 am
It’s a ridiculous claim that people with 10.4 won’t buy spanking-new software! And it is ridiculous to claim that EVERYONE will upgrade to 10.5! Flow started on 10.4, it should keep support for it.
January 27th, 2008 at 2:04 am
I personally don’t care, I only use Leopard, but for the sake of your revenue, or whatever, maybe it’d be better to support Tiger as well.
However, if it means that you’re going to get it out there faster, then definitely support only 10.5+
January 27th, 2008 at 2:13 am
Leopard only. But Chris had a good suggestion of keeping the 10.4 beta available for Tiger users.
January 27th, 2008 at 2:14 am
I am currently a 10.4 user, but am having to upgrade due to the fact that 10.4 doesn’t support fragment shaders on my graphics card.
I think that you should do what ever makes the development and code as solid as possible. With all the hype surrounding Flow, there will be a lot of scrutiny about the state of the final release. If you were to release something that ended up being buggy, (like a not quite for public 10.4 version), it might hurt the overall feel of the app, and you might lose some credibility.
However, if you were able to make the segments of the app that were 10.4 specific open-source, you could leave the Tiger version in a public beta testing stage, and that way it won’t show up in a MacWorld review.
January 27th, 2008 at 2:23 am
No! There are a lot of people still using Tiger, I’m one of them! Since Tiger is still better
January 27th, 2008 at 2:23 am
Well, think Leopard only is the way to go. The problem is you should think about the amount of people that´s using Leopard already and if it´s enough for you a the product seller. If thats so, then go for it….
January 27th, 2008 at 2:45 am
If Flow will be more stable and fully take advantage of the technologies in Leopard, then yes. I know other developers who have moved to Leopard only to tighten up code and have one less operating system to support.
January 27th, 2008 at 2:46 am
I suppose my input won’t really matter as such now considering the overwhelming bias for a Leopard only version. Only 2c I can add is the amount of machines out there that are not exactly Leopard capable, there’s a significant amount of those systems still in active use, mine included. While it can not run Leopard, there is absolutely no need to, applications still run well on these systems under Tiger and I was hoping Extendmac’s Flow would be included, after all post release it will be the premier Mac FTP client hands down.
I don’t see why Tiger should be killed so quickly after Leopard’s release, quite a shame really as it is still a very good, very capable and face it, less resource intensive operating system.
Keep up the good work, and I look forward to the public release.
- Michael
January 27th, 2008 at 2:47 am
Definitely go for Leopard only if it makes Flow better. I think it would be a waste to cut down on features because of support for an old OS.
January 27th, 2008 at 2:51 am
If time is limited and the Leopard version does more tricks and has more potential, I’d go for that and follow Mark Avery’s suggestion for the Tiger version. A lot of software out there only plays with the current version of OSX. It’s frustrating, but I can live with it.
January 27th, 2008 at 2:51 am
Leopard is the future so… Go for it
January 27th, 2008 at 3:01 am
Leopard, definitely Leopard only!
January 27th, 2008 at 3:02 am
I say go for it, I’m already using a couple of Leopard only apps which make use of Leopards new features.
January 27th, 2008 at 3:03 am
I would say: Leopard only!
The question is as always: Do you really think that a user, who still uses Tiger, would really pay for a new FTP client (normally that type of user already has one), but does not like to pay for Leopard. What should the reason to not use Leopard. I think in a half a year Leopard will have about 60%. And for new and modern applications it is more important to make the new users happy. You have no legacy users, like other applications. You must use this fact as a benefit!
January 27th, 2008 at 3:06 am
Leopard only looks like the best option. I’m running Leopard, and the new API’s and Core’s are great, so i think Flow should take the best advantages from them, too.
Keep it going
January 27th, 2008 at 3:16 am
(sorry, no time to read comments…)
I don`t have Leo on board, and I will not have it in a while… The answer is simple.
This is an answer for the developer. Ofcourse, the developer can have his own point of view forcing users to upgrade. In such a case, the application should be worth the upgrade.
January 27th, 2008 at 3:16 am
Over 20% of the install based is in Leopard and those are the people who#ll buy your app, the others will first buy Leopard itself, so go for it
January 27th, 2008 at 3:20 am
I think it would be better in terms of functionality, nice looks and rapid development not to support 10.4, and make Flow leopard only.
January 27th, 2008 at 3:25 am
So little to add at this point… Given the kind of product flow will be and its audience (quite sophisticated users) I’d say Leopard only is fair and won’t cause you to lose significant market.
If possible a beta release to play with tiger, as suggested, could be a good move, still.
Keep Up!!!
Angelo (running 6 Macs, 5 of them still on Tiger, just waiting 10.5.2)
January 27th, 2008 at 3:26 am
Hi,
Though I will shortly move to 10.5 my idea is :
- 10.4.11 is a very stable OS
- not everyone is going to buy 10.5 in the next weeks : these people still have several paid Tiger only (or not fully 10.5 compatible) apps, are waiting a change of computer…
- I know it’s time consuming to develop a two-headed app : better have 2 apps allowing you to concentrate on efficient Leopard features in #1, while #2 (free or cheap Tiger version) is a teaser for future upgraders
- finally, if Flow comes out of the box in 1 month, it would be a mistake to drop Tiger. If you think of 6 months or 1 year, then it would be wiser to drop Tiger (though it’s a paradox as if you drop Tiger it takes less time…)
January 27th, 2008 at 3:28 am
Everyone else has already stated the reason so I’ll jump right to my conclusion then.
Let’s go Leopard only.
January 27th, 2008 at 3:36 am
Go for Leopard! I am on Tiger now, but I will be soon on Leopard (next iMac rev). And it seems a good idea to look at the future I think.
January 27th, 2008 at 3:47 am
Vote for Leo only.
January 27th, 2008 at 3:50 am
If you have limited resources, both development time and hardware, definitely go for Leopard only with a brand new product. In the beginning this will of course limit your target audience, as according to Apple a maximum 20% of Mac users upgraded so far. On the positive side Leopard makes it easier for you to add glitz and functionality to your app that separates it from the competition.
From our experience supporting two different breeds of operating systems causes much more overhead as you should test regularly on both. This means you need to run your app at least once a week on Tiger during development. If you have not been careful enough you end up with half a day of fixing stuff you broke the days before.
Even worse is the issue of providing customer support. That was at least our experience with Panther and Tiger. It really sucked trying to undertand rare issues our customers were experiencing on some old Panther version you hadn’t been using in a year. While tools seem to be better this time, it looks similar with providing support for Tiger already.
January 27th, 2008 at 4:03 am
It would be sad to have a Leopard software only. I’m not switching to Leopard anytime soon cause i just think it’s not worth the price. So, i’d be disappointed.
January 27th, 2008 at 4:04 am
Leopard Only.
January 27th, 2008 at 4:22 am
Safe yourself the hassle. Leopard only!
January 27th, 2008 at 4:24 am
If you make it Leopard only you are preventing a large number of users from using the application, even though 80% of the beta testers may be on Leopard, 80% of users are on Tiger therefore you should support them.
January 27th, 2008 at 4:34 am
I’d advise you to keep making available a 10.4.x version, given Apple’s track on not totally reliable and polished first versions of operating system. There is and will be a considerable % of users (and possibly reviewers, and word-of-mouth spreaders) of Flow that are on Tiger and that you will definitely lose if you switch ASAP to Leopard-only.
nda
January 27th, 2008 at 4:53 am
The thing I’d do in this case would be releasing two separate versions.
First of all, get a Flow 10.5 version out and then backport the important functions to Tiger.
Since in the first few months of Leopard sales it already has an installed user base of +- 20% (which is more than Tiger had in it’s first months of sale) and the beta-users are over 80% Leopard users it seems just even more likely that the vast majority of Flow-users will be Leopard users.
Ofcourse there are and will be Tiger users but you have to draw the line at some point. After a year of development and more and more users switching to Leopard it would be from my point of view crucial to speed op development and release the application to a first batch of users. After that you can always consider releasing a Tiger version to attract even more customers.
As Flow will be competing with applications such as Trnasmit and Cyberduck it is important to get a vast userbase as quickly as possible which will by themselves spread the word about Flow increasing the application’s popularity. If you then feel you’re missing out on to many customers, get a Tiger version out too.
January 27th, 2008 at 5:13 am
I would keep it simple, one version, leopard only.
January 27th, 2008 at 5:23 am
Make it a Leopard-only app, but also release an unsupported Current-State-Tiger-Beta, please. I’m not on 10.5. yet but sooner or later I’ll have to, so that would be ok for me.
January 27th, 2008 at 5:31 am
Flow is an up and coming application and if it is not Leopard only it will be missing out on up and coming technologies available to Leopard only. It should definitely be available on Leopard only as all new mac owners don’t have a choice, they have Leopard pre-installed anyway. The OS is so cheap in comparison to Micro$oft products that anyone who doesn’t have Leopard should get it!!
All in all — Leopard only is a no brainer … hands down
January 27th, 2008 at 5:34 am
10.4 as well!
I live on my MBP as a work tool and am consequently very conservative about upgrades. I would rather lag behind the “edge of coolness” to minimize the risk of the bugs that early adopters inevitably find. (Per advice from a source I won’t name, I’ll likely wait for 10.5.2, by which time all the wrinkles should be ironed out.) I appreciate the pioneers who grab a new OS version five minutes after it’s available, and then blog about their experiences (freezes, non-boots, incompatible apps, etc.) for the rest of us. I’m just not in a position to do that.
I have to take issue with points in your “Deficits of being a Leopard-only Application”:
* On the “high correlation between people who are interested in third party software and those who are interested in first party (Apple) software.” I suggest that the real explanation is a high correlation between having the time and resources to be a *beta*tester* and being an early adopter. (Actually, I think they’re close to being the same thing.)
* On “If you’re a primary 10.5 user, but still have an old mac running 10.4, you can’t use Flow on your old mac.” That is exactly the situation I’m in. I question the “practicality and applicability” of being expected by Apple (or any other vendor) to upgrade my OS (or replace older hardware) as soon as there’s a new version. We’re talking about 10.4 here, not 10.1.
January 27th, 2008 at 5:50 am
Leopard only!
January 27th, 2008 at 5:51 am
People reading this blog and beta testing will more than likely be on Leopard. But that doesn’t mean the entire range of possible customers will be on Leopard yet. For those Macs in a business environment especially, Tiger will be here for quite some time to come. I would say it is more than worth the effort to make the 1.x branch Tiger-compatible. An FTP app is a general purpose app, and won’t just interest those that see/read this blog.
Most folks say that to ‘make it’, you need to capture less than one percent of the Mac market. If you suddenly cut off 80% of the current Mac market, you will need a greater percentage of the 20% [the current Leopard users]. Those that use their Macs for real work are going to be much more conservative on upgrading to Leopard. I would also suggest you asking the MacSB mailing list this same question; there you will get the advice from over 1400 Mac developers.
January 27th, 2008 at 5:59 am
Also, unrelated, but at Macworld 2008, another app named Flow was introduced: http://gridironsoftware.com/Flow/ and like another app introduced at Macworld [Iris], it shares the name of ….well, your app! As I have already tried, it is impossible to install two apps called Flow [or Iris] in one’s Applications folder. Will the common user know to drag the icon to the desktop, rename, and then move to the Applications folder? Hmmmm….
January 27th, 2008 at 5:59 am
Leopard all the way if the software can then be at it’s best.
January 27th, 2008 at 6:05 am
Yes, absolutely, if that’s what it takes for you to make a product that you’re prouder of. Also, Mac users are much better at keeping their operating systems up-to-date than Windows users. Don’t worry so much about supporting legacy users.
January 27th, 2008 at 6:06 am
I’d say make Flow 10.5 only. I’d guess that in another year or two, it’s likely most of your install base would be running Leopard. The benefits of making it Leopard only outweigh making it 10.4 compatible in my opinion.
January 27th, 2008 at 6:07 am
When I switched to Tiger I did so because there were so many apps that were Tiger only. The same is true for Leopard I suspect (though I switched immediately this time) and since your 1.x will be coming out well after Leopards initial release I see no reason for you to be backward compatible, especially if it will make the product better.
I vote for Leopard only
January 27th, 2008 at 6:07 am
Leopard only.
January 27th, 2008 at 6:07 am
I’d go Leopard only.
If you look at the stats for the Tiger adoption rate, the vast majority of the user base upgraded….just give them time to do so with Leopard.
If it makes your app better, go for Leopard.
January 27th, 2008 at 6:08 am
yes. Leave a beta for the tiger users and make all future releases leopard only. When you get to 1.0, you might consider releasing a tiger version, but I think leopard makes sense for the beta.
January 27th, 2008 at 6:17 am
Leopard only would be fine I think.
January 27th, 2008 at 6:27 am
Leopard only. You will finish sooner, have a better app and eliminate a lot of maintenance work.
January 27th, 2008 at 6:29 am
I agree on going Leopard only and offering a Tiger beta version at a discounted price.
January 27th, 2008 at 6:31 am
Leopard only makes sense
January 27th, 2008 at 6:33 am
For me personally Leopard only would be ok, but I also own some Macs which are still great machines but cannot run Leopard or not very well. Being a developer myself this always comes down to a marketing decision so I hope you get the coverage you need going Leopard only. I use command line tools to do sftp right now so I might not be a good representation of the normal user.
January 27th, 2008 at 6:34 am
Leopard only.
January 27th, 2008 at 6:37 am
Leopard only is fine. Only question, how would you handle development when 10.6 comes out? I’m guessing that it comes down to simple math. If you release for 10.5 initially, you probably won’t lose much as your app is just picking up steam in terms of adoption but as it gets more popular, there will be more revenue and justification to support 2 OS releases or more.
January 27th, 2008 at 6:39 am
Leopard only, please!
January 27th, 2008 at 6:54 am
So far, I can see that you’ve received tons of comments from your user base, and I think that they’ve said everything that needs to be said. With that in mind, I’ll keep this short and sweet. I echo several people in saying make a cheaper, non-upgradeable version for 10.4 that only runs on 10.4, but don’t pour your soul into it. When those on 10.4 upgrade to 10.5, the app should run for 30 more days so as not to simply stop working, and then you should have an upgrade license that is slightly cheaper than a regular license. On the practical side, however, once you’ve done that, (and like I said, it doesn’t have to be fancy) make it really nice and use Leopard’s powerful features. That’s what your user base wants, and it’ll be better for you.
So, that was my 2c. Just as a note: I don’t actually have access to Flow (nudge, nudge) but as a developer and app-user, I think that the plan outlined above would seem to work. Good luck.
January 27th, 2008 at 6:54 am
I think if Flow will benefit from the core features of Leopard, then yes make it Leopard only. But if it is just some minor bugs that could be worked out in Leopard, then I believe it should be available to both. I think you see many of the beta testers on Leopard because we are a somewhat early adopter crowd. You are doing a great job on Flow so far though.
January 27th, 2008 at 7:00 am
I’d say Leopard only. The important math is: we all know that there are good FTP clients out there, that support Panther and/or Tiger. It’s not that this is a “new never released” type of software. So make it leopard only and add stuff that no other software has. At least now. By the time they release a version with all the things you have (Leopard stuff), you’ll be already thinking of 10.6
New macs come with Leopard. Users with old macs already have an FTP client. MacHeist bundles and stuff like that gave thousands of Fetch licences and others. You need to innovate. It’s the right time.
Good Luck!
January 27th, 2008 at 7:01 am
In looking at your points, it seems making it Leopard only makes the application better, while including Tiger support just makes you a “nice guy”. I think in making the first release of your app, you should be striving to have it be the best it can be. If that means leaving out Tiger support to make the app better, so be it.
January 27th, 2008 at 7:09 am
I agree with the general consensus above, I think that you should head for a Leopard only release. It makes sense from a development point of view and would make the application much more complete.
But I also feel that you should release the last Tiger beta for people to download. It would be a shame to prevent those people from using Flow. I’m sure a lot of people are already using Leopard and for those that aren’t, this is just a another really good reason.
Thanks for all your hard work so far.
January 27th, 2008 at 7:11 am
I think Leopard features are important to make your FTP client stand out.
January 27th, 2008 at 7:11 am
Pretty difficult decision, certainly. Limiting yourself in the amount of copies you can sell by going with the latest OS can be a daunting decision, certainly, but if your app is critically acclaimed, who knows, perhaps you’ll encourage many to take a more serious look about upgrading to 10.5. Not only that, but there are a number of people who are just waiting till 10.5.3 - 10.5.5 is released before upgrading so that a majority of the major bugs are taken care of, so the percentage of Mac users running 10.5 will certainly increase notably in the coming months. I say go 10.5 exclusive if you believe it’s going to make Flow a better application and make it more appealing instead of crunching excess code and making compromises for a “multiplatform” release.
January 27th, 2008 at 7:11 am
For what it’s worth, I hope you make it for Leopard. There are already several FTP programs available for Tiger users.
I personally want Flow to be the best tool possible and to take advantage of features that those other programs don’t.
You do lose access to some customers by making it for 10.5, but you’d be targeting your market better IMO.
January 27th, 2008 at 7:18 am
I vote for Leopard only. People will be moving to Leopard and most likely will be looking for applications that support Leopard’s new features. There are plenty of excellent FTP clients for people who are not running Leopard. Plus, it should alleviate some of the development complexity and allow you to build a better final product.
January 27th, 2008 at 7:22 am
I’d reiterate some previous comments for Tiger, but yeah, Leopard is here, so you should probably go in that direction.
Guess Panther’s out of the question.
January 27th, 2008 at 7:28 am
As long as some major apps, like from Adobe CS3 have major bugs when run onder Leopard, I would say, please also give those often professional Tiger users a chance to use Flow as well!
January 27th, 2008 at 7:39 am
Although I presently use 10.4, I will be upgrading at some point in the future to 10.5 so a limited beta version of Flow would be appreciated so I can test on 10.4 and hopefully be encouraged to upgrade to 10.5 to get the most out the full version of flow. If Flow will be an altogether better app if it’s limited to 10.5 then that’s the way to go.
January 27th, 2008 at 7:44 am
IMO you’re better off targeting for Leopard. A key difference between Mac & Windows these days is that the Apple community isn’t unnaturally afraid of dropping legacy support in order to make things better. This keeps apps and technology moving forward at a pretty rapid (if incremental) pace. Windows development is largely frozen (look at the recent discussion over IE 8 mode support) by the overwhelming need for eternal backwards-compatibility.
January 27th, 2008 at 7:44 am
From what I know, most people upgraded to Leopard. I would prefer Leopard only.
January 27th, 2008 at 7:45 am
Since I’m Leopard only, I guess I selfishly vote for that route. There are other Tiger-friendly FTP programs, including FTP options within CS3 (I think?).
January 27th, 2008 at 7:48 am
Please make it Leopard-only.
January 27th, 2008 at 7:56 am
I would have no problem with it being Leopard only.
I think the benefits to the 83.1 percent of your users grossly outweighs the two concerns that you mentioned.
January 27th, 2008 at 7:57 am
I completely agree with Jonas: make a final beta release of Flow for Tiger for free.
Making it free with accomplish two things:
1) It’s beta software. I don’t think it would be fair to charge anything for that.
2) It’s marketing and incentive. If they really like flow, they will become interested in purchasing a copy of it. This could aid in their move to Leopard.
Leopard only with Tiger beta for free.
January 27th, 2008 at 8:04 am
I’m running on Tiger, and don’t think upgrade to leopard until it runs better than right now. But i think you can drop developpement for Tiger : as one or two already said : there are nice others Tiger FTP program, be one of the very best ones for leopard
January 27th, 2008 at 8:06 am
If going Leopard only makes the app better, easier or cooler than do it.
January 27th, 2008 at 8:09 am
+1 Leopard only.
January 27th, 2008 at 8:17 am
I like what chris said yesterday. The next release will be 10.4 only. Make it the best 10.4 release ever. No updates after that though, and from then on go 10.5 only.
January 27th, 2008 at 8:20 am
My vote is for Leopard only. You’ll gain at least some marketing advantage over the many other FTP programs that have been around for a while by being able to present Flow as something really, really new. But you’ll have to deliver the goods and show what advantages Leopard-only has to offer to the user. I don’t know about other Mac folk, but I’m very interested to see the advantages Leopard-only development will bring to the community. We’ve heard so much about the new APIs, etc. but what will this really mean to me, the end user?
January 27th, 2008 at 8:21 am
Go for it. There are so many Tiger (and earlier) ftp solutions. Targeting Leopard only will give you a competitive advantage over all other ftp apps that are trying to move to Leopard, yet have to maintain old code for their current customer base.
January 27th, 2008 at 8:31 am
Hmm… I agreed with Dave reasoning above, complete version Leopard only, with release free beta for Tiger.
January 27th, 2008 at 8:34 am
Leopard only to see flow as golden master as soon as posible….
can´t wait!
January 27th, 2008 at 8:36 am
10.5-only would be fine with me.
January 27th, 2008 at 8:40 am
As an early adopter, and 10.5 user, it makes sense to plan for the future and go Leopard-only. Go with the new cat!
January 27th, 2008 at 8:50 am
Leopard only. I’m all for taking advantage of the new APIs and having more streamlined code.
January 27th, 2008 at 8:59 am
Leopard only, thanks for asking.
January 27th, 2008 at 9:04 am
You nailed it with the “Two Macs” rationale.
I have both a fast desktop Mac and a not so fast PowerBook G4. The PowerBook is too slow for a Leopard install (and too slow to justify putting Leopard on there anyway), but it runs fine under Tiger.
When I go on the road, I want to run the same software that I use when I’m home.
I need it to be compatible with Tiger.
January 27th, 2008 at 9:12 am
All future Apple computer purchases will be Leopard, and as new apps take advantage of Leopard, there will be increasing pressure on (almost) everyone to upgrade. I say focus on Leopard.
January 27th, 2008 at 9:15 am
Hmmm… this is a very good question. Leopard hasn’t been out long, but the people who would likely use Flow are going to be early adopters.
I say: Go with Leopard exclusively. There are other applications non-Leopard users can find (although not as good as Flow) that will do pretty much the same thing.
January 27th, 2008 at 9:22 am
The pending .2 release should encourage more users to install leopard. I have it installed on all my personal machines, but I have 10 work machines that are waiting for that release. If corporate users are a concern, I think the tiger beta, full leopard app solution may be best.
January 27th, 2008 at 9:27 am
Wow! In under 12 hours of posting this it looks like you have more than enough feedback to make your decision (or at least I see an overwhelming trend in the replies). That’s a lot of great response in such a little amount of time. Just goes to show you what kind of attention a great app can receive! Congratulations on that part alone!
But on to the question at hand.. Up front here, I am a Leopard user and I too think that making it Leopard only is the way to go. Now… I am not one of the lucky ones to be a beta tester for this, so I’m not even basing what I’m saying in regards to that. And no, I’m not saying to go with Leopard only because I personally have Leopard and it caters to me. But I am a developer and I do know that having the latest-greatest technology as your sole concentration is very beneficial. If there’s one thing that we’re all short on in this life (if you’re living it to it’s fullest) is time. And based off your previous post, I think that time is something you could use… =)
If making the decision to be Leopard only 1) saves you time, 2) allows you to focus in and specialize on a specific platform, and 3) allows you to create a better product, then I too (like the other posters above) can’t see catering to the minority that it leaves behind. That’s not being cruel, but if Flow is supposed to be cutting edge technology, then it needs to focus on using the cutting edge technology.
Anyway… I think I’m starting to repeat myself now… So there it is. My $0.02. Keep up the good work and I cannot wait to see a public release! I refresh the page almost every day to see if there’s a little download link that magically appears! =)
January 27th, 2008 at 9:38 am
I’m more than fine with Flow being 10.5 only. I agree that it will most likely improve the product in terms of support and feature implementation. The more that you’re focused on developing a great piece of software for 10.5 only will only encourage others to upgrade their operating system as more and more programs become 10.5 only.
The only down side I can see to this approach is that by dropping 10.4 support you might be missing out on an important opportunity to learn how to develop quickly on two different OS’s for the future when 10.6, etc. etc. come out.
January 27th, 2008 at 9:41 am
Personnally I wouldn’t drop Tiger just yet but as someone already posted, if your current beta work just fine, then I would branch out the final version for Leopard only and have available the Beta Tiger version.
January 27th, 2008 at 9:42 am
Leopard Only. Always go with what will give the best Long Term Results .
January 27th, 2008 at 10:05 am
I really see no problem with going with a 10.5-exclusive release. The software isn’t out of beta yet, so it’s not like there is already a major, established, and paying userbase on 10.4 that will be disappointed. From skimming the comments above me, it’s obvious that some of the other testers are still running Tiger, but they knew when they got into this that things would change. It’s a beta, not a final product, and that’s the whole point of a beta.
I see that some people have